01-03-2007, 12:30 PM
Dear Brother Beard,
My post wasn't directed to YOUR comments on dual
citizenship. However, let me say a few things on what
First, and as I've written many times, African-
Americans are the ethnic descendants of those who were
"stolen from Africa and brought to America".
Secondly, recall the story that Kwame Toure related
regarding the exchange between him and Shirley Dubois,
the wife of W.E.B. Dubois, when he told her that he
was going to "tear up his passport". She said to him,
"Just put it in your back pocket."
The point is granted that we are free to accept,
reject, or renounce the citizenship that we (some of
us) presently claim, both rightfully and lawfully,
under the 14th amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
That the white man can change or ignore his laws
however and whenever it suits his fancy is also a
But, like Mrs. Dubois, I feel that we ought not
deprive ourselves of the advantages of that
citizenship if we can use it to further our aims, both
strategic and otherwise.
Lastly, if "dual" citizenship is the most advantageous
for us, then "dual" citizenship is what we should be
01-03-2007, 12:31 PM
Please consider the brief quote below from Attorney
Dr. Robert L. Brock. The U.S. Constitution considers
us 3/5 of a person anyway. We are not a whole body.
Determining the Domicile of Slave Descendants: Can
domicile be forced? Dr. Brock states the following:
"The domicile gained by free birth of Africans in
Africa cannot be changed by a slave birth in the
United States, and the Rules are: (1) It lies upon the
other side (the U.S. and IRS) to show that the clear
unquestionable domicile, gained by birth of Africans
in Africa was abandoned and given up; (2) That the
domicile of origin is the domicile of every Person,
until that is abandoned, and another gained; (3) That
no domicile can be acquired until the Person is free
and sui juris."
The conclusion is that slave descendants don
01-03-2007, 12:38 PM
Even if the theoretical examination proves true, the constitution as it is has been recognized as valid many times and there is virtually no prospect that someone will actually uphold this theory that the 14th and 16th amendments were not ratified. All of these theories rely on obscure evidence.
It's one thing to realize that we were indeed not citizens when we got here. It is one thing to renounce citizenship if we see that as a viable option (which I do not -- my mother from Africa applied for her U.S. citizenship because she knows it allows her to travel more easily) but it is an entirely different thing to perpetuate these theories that serve no purpose but to confuse and distract our own people. I feel that this is how we create brothers and sisters who are overwhelmed with information and conspiracy theories and end up being stagnant. I have plenty of friends who I used to build with who I used to be on these conspiratorial sounding theories with and after a while you get tired because they just don't encourage tangible action and it gets boring. Needless to say most of my partners have gone back to the block with it's much more tangible results.
So I'm saying you might actually be right, but is it the battle worth fighting? Or is it as futile as trying to give the indians back their land? Even indians realize that is not a tangible goal to fight for at this point.
The renewal of the voting rights act IS NOT evidence that our citizenship is up for review.
I have a passport whether or not the civil rights act is renewed. What is in danger is our equal access to the voting franchise not our citizenship.
I'm not accepting that as okay. But there should be clarification. Puerto Ricans are citizens who cannot vote for president. DC residents are citizens who cannot vote for president. This is f***ed up but let's be clear on the battle we are fighting.
01-03-2007, 12:39 PM
Kafule, you are right on with all your points. We do
tend to romanticize a lot about Africa. One thing we
need to do is to start building communities which will
facilitate our brothers and sisters getting use to
Africa. We have the skill sets and the money, all that
it takes is the will to do it.
01-05-2007, 01:08 PM
Thank you so very much for your comments. I just want
us to be clear about our status in the U.S. It would
be senseful for us not to take advantage of any
opportunities we have created as the result of our own
Civil Rights activism, but to act based upon illusions
of our legal status is unproductive. You bring up a
very important name, W.E.B. DuBois. It is DuBois
identified our major character flaw as our "dualism".
DuBois stated that we do not know enough about our
African culture to feel secure in it, and we are not
accepted enough by the dominant culture to feel secure
in it, so we have our feet in two places of quicksand.
And, as you know, one sinks in quicksand. To take
advantage of relative advances from our Civil Rights
Activism is one thing, but to act as if we are U.S.
Citizens without proof is tantamount to burying our
heads in the sand while we sink in it. We need to be
clear on the law, the REAL LAW. The fact is that to
say that we are ethnic descendants of Africans is
incomplete unless we also acknowledge that our
situation is quite unique. We do not exist. We have no
langauge, no religion and no culture we can call our
own. All three of these "universal" Human Rights were
stripped from us by force of arms and White law to
which we are not party. To parade under a banner of
being U.S. Citizens given the prepondernace of facts
to the contrary is simply trauma from which we shall
hopefully recover. I am not suggesting giving up U.S.
Citizenship. I am asserting that we are in fact of law
not U.S. Citizens and the U.S. Courts are aware of
this. We are the ones who don't know it or don't care
to know it, but we can be more effective if we can
just compact around who we really are and move forward
in a none schizoid way. We didn't need a passport to
get here. Why should we play psychological games with
ourselves about passports now? This is, in fact, a
good analogy, the passport. Whereas I will not be able
to travel without my passport, it makes a difference
if I am suffering some illusions about its
significance regarding my true legal status. I don't
personally see how a People who do not exist on a
world standard of language, religion and culture can
be considered to be free without Reparations and self
determination. What freedoms had we left for the 14th
Amendment to protect and when did we ask the U.S. to
protect any of our freedoms? We just don't understand
what law is. Law is made between People, not
established unilaterally by somebody else. So they say
we are U.S. Ctizens because we are born here in the
U.S., and after all of what they did to us that has
not been settled, we are going to accept that as law
without having any input into the making of the law
and no terms of settlement for the Crime Against
Humanity? I worry about our character. We just don't
get it yet. I accept this as our current state of mind
and know the causes.
Oscar L. Beard
01-05-2007, 01:09 PM
We have the right to relinquish our U.S. Citizenship if we choose, but how many people do we know that will realistically do so? Does such a movement have any potential to become a mass movement? I personally do not think so.
I understand and support the THEORY and premise on which your comments stand, but in fact, we are U.S. Citizens, we can vote and have a right to all rights granted to U.S. citizens under the U.S. constitution. The battle for recognition of U.S. citizenship is something people died for and the battle for correct enforcement of the constitution is something that people have died for as well. I do not always agree that it was wise to die for these things, but the fact that people died for them cannot be ignored and should not be dishonored.
Now, whether or not we want to be assimilationists, etc... is another discussion. Like you, I think we ought to vigorously rediscover a collective language, culture, etc... but that too is a separate discussion from the simple question of Citizenship... we are U.S. citizens when the U.S. constitution says so... because in this land the U.S. constitution is recognized as the supreme law of the land... for the time being. now if we want to throw a revolutionary coup and change that fact than that too is another discussion... just like if the constitution said that all people born in China were U.S. citizens, they would be by U.S. standards and they could then relinquish or object to that as a body if they so choose or they could stand in line to get their U.S. passport to add to their Chinese passports and be dual citizens.... but africans in america (african americans) have not relinquished that designation in any large number... instead the majority of us have fought for it and fought to improve and clarify it...
01-07-2007, 12:43 PM
xxPeter wrote: I agree that one should study the
Constitution and especially the Articles of
Confederation. By doing so one will see that Slave
Descendants are not citizens. The US would not
recognize a dual citizenship status if you don't have
the first one at all. Blacks would be crazy to not
continue to bring up the point of the 14th Amendment
never being mutually agreed on by the Black Africans
not to memtion weather it was legally ratified anyway.
01-08-2007, 12:30 PM
I accept that you do not understand what I am saying.
I can only ask you to visit Attorney Dr. Robert L.
Brock's website at your leisure at:
In particular at the site, read the Leonard Ashton
versus the U.S. and the IRS case. It has some
excellent sections on the U.S. Constitution.
We cannot relinquish U.S. Citizenship that we do not
have. I never suggested that we reliquish it.
Oscar L. Beard
01-08-2007, 09:02 PM
Dear Mr Beard,
I thank you for the link to the information. I have digested it and produced a sort essay of sorts regarding my thoughts on what I have learned of the "Black Tax Revolt"
Here is the link:
I would hope that you would be patient enough to continue this discussion with me.
I am 23 years old. Attended Howard University, am originally from Minnesota. I am the publisher and editor of The Liberator Magazine which was started about 4 years ago by myself and other young people while I was still in college in DC. I hope that me being forthright in providing some background on who I am will help ensure you that I have the best intentions in this discussion.
One of the things that I mention in my short essay is this:
I am so interested in this dialog and hope it does not end. One of the things I am most weary of is the separation of dialog groups and spaces, where those who believe one thing choose to dialog with those who already believe the same thing, rather than participating in diverse spaces where we are challenged to be rational and patient and understanding in our discussion. We have to be willing to listen.
I hope that you read my essay containing my honest thoughts and questions on this topic as I think it an important one for myself and others. And I hope that we can continue this discussion. And I hope that we both learn more moving forward. And most importantly, I hope that we move towards reaching a common understanding through this discussion.
Again, here is the link to my sort essay-like compilation of thoughts.
05-17-2011, 11:39 AM
Tanzania: Govt Still Push for Dual Citizenship
Tanzania: Govt Still Push for Dual Citizenship
Tanzania Foreign minister, Mr Bernard Membe has called for recognition of dual citizenship as an economic issue.Addressing a two-day diaspora-3 conference at the Sattavis Patidar Centre in Wembley, north London, on Friday, Mr Membe promised that support for the diaspora community is being pushed at a political level through setting up "right mechanisms and discussions by the ruling party and in Parliament."
Mr Membe said: "We have reached a stage where contribution of foreign living nationals is crucial. We need teachers, investors and other skilled experts to contribute to the economy."
Mr Membe, who was also the guest of honour to diaspora-2 conference last year, was accompanied by Ms Bertha Somi of a special created Diaspora Engagement Department in the ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation and a strong group of professionals and members of Parliament from both the Mainland and Zanzibar.
Applauded by almost hundred attendees from various regions of UK, Mr Membe emphasised the seriousness of the matter by offering personal greetings from President Jakaya Kikwete, who also sent a letter to the last year's conference. "London is the frontline of diaspora," Mr Membe noted.
Assuring that the situation at home is both peaceful and ready for investment, diaspora-based nationals were told that they are appreciated and considered an extended region of Tanzania. "We need your skills and input in helping make the twenty first century constitution of our country."
Annual London diaspora meetings have been inspired by President Kikwete visit to London in 2007. Since 2009, three events have been organised by the Tanzanian High Commission in the UK (then by the former envoy, Mrs Mwanaidi Maajar and this year through Mr Peter Kallaghe) and UK's Tanzanian Association. During a prolonged question and answer session, the minister explained that living overseas does not automatically make one part of the diaspora.
He said civil servants, students, sick people or diplomats were not considered part of the diaspora but "only those who have left the country and settled overseas." He said the aim of the government is to engage them because they work hard and send money back home thus contributing to the economy. "That is why we are looking seriously at measures to make things smoother, therefore considering dual citizenship," Mr Membe said.
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